The Widdershins

Winter is Coming

Posted on: September 18, 2021

Hello Widdershins!

This week is the end of Summer, at least officially. The funny thing is in Eastern Europe we’d never heard of a season ending in the middle of the month. We always considered Autumn began on September 1 (always first day of school.) Winter started December 1. Spring on March 1 and Summer on June 1st. I learned the hard way shortly after coming to the USA that this is not how Americans do it. On some exam in an ESL class the question was “When does Spring begin.” Naturally I said “March 1” and lost a point. Nobody had ever told me it was different here. I also never quite adjusted to Inches/Feet and Fahrenheit. It just makes more sense that water freezes at 0 degrees and boils at 100. And everything else falls in between. I still use a Celsius thermometer for body temperatures. And the metric measuring system just makes so much more sense! It was Ronald Reagan who decided to stick with the Imperial system in the US, wasn’t it? Well, the UK is about to reintroduce the Imperial system. To spite the European Union, I guess? This is Boris Johnson’s great new idea for Brexit… I just don’t know how many ways Boris Johnson can face-plant England. Of course, we had – and still have – You Know Who. So who are we to judge about face-planting.

Speaking of face-planting, the newest MAGAt rally was a bust. Nobody showed up. Now the complaints are “The media overreacted!” Or maybe in this instance the attention given to the plannings of the second rally scared away people like Ginni Thomas – wife of SCOTUS justice Clarence Thomas – from renting buses to bring people to DC; something she did for 1/6. As did countless others.

Speaking of winter coming, Amy Coney Barrett and Clarence Thomas appeared this past week in public and gave speeches on how completely non-political they are. After I stopped laughing I got scared because these people dominate SCOTUS and we are in a world of hurt with their upcoming rulings. The Texas abortion non-ruling is just a taste of what’s to come. The same person that wrote the Texas abortion law is currently petitioning SCOTUS to uphold the Mississippi abortion law and in the same brief argues SCOTUS must overturn the rulings that outlawed a ban on same-sex sex and that allowed gay marriage. The Christian Taliban is on a mission. We may soon be demanding our Democratic governors tell SCOTUS to enforce their laws if they can.

This is an open thread.

75 Responses to "Winter is Coming"

Also, we may be going to war with France. The French recalled their ambassadors to the US and Australia. So there’s that.

Thanks for the new thread DYB. I tried posting twice but WP wasn’t having any of it, so I will post the link instead of explaining much about it.

When do the four seasons start—and why do the dates change for the start of spring, summer, fall, and winter? Here are the equinox and solstice dates for 2021 and 2022—plus, answers to common questions about why seasons’ dates may change, why the seasons are different lengths, and what’s the difference between an astronomical season and a meteorological season.

Each season has both an astronomical start and a meteorological start. It sounds complicated, but trust us, it’s not!

The astronomical start date is based on the position of the Sun in relation to the Earth.
The meteorological start date is based on our 12-month civiil calendar as well as the annual temperature cycle.

Baby elephant and Mama running to the humans for help.

That is so darn sweet.

I’m used to the most-of-the-world (?? I think!) system where the seasons start on or near equinoxes and solstices. Like you, D, I thought everybody did things the way I was used to 😆

Turns out in New Zealand, they start seasons on the first of the month. I doubt most NZers could find Eastern Europe on a map (I joke! I joke! Of course they could, but there really isn’t much cultural connection). So I have no idea where they came up with the idea.

I know. You’re gonna say it’s so eminently logical, they didn’t need to get it from anywhere. (Don’t tell anyone I said this, but in terms of weather changing, it really does make more sense to have it earlier.)

Quixote, so New Zealanders do it too? It just kind of make sense because of the simplicity to start on the 1st of the month, doesn’t it? I understand the equinox thing, but when did people start caring about scientific accuracy!

Great post D, and I really like that Madonna song. This SCOTUS is definitely terrifying.

I feel like people who still vote Republican for “tax reasons” (the Susan Collins types) really deluded themselves that the Supreme Court wouldn’t really overturn Roe or Obergefell. I think they are actually quite upset and will leave the Party after this.

Yes, weather-wise in my area it makes sense to have the seasons start at the first of the relevant month. In several European cultures the summer and winter solstice are referred to as “midsummer” and “midwinter” respectively. This always puzzled me because how could the 1st day of a season also be in the middle of the season? Just depends on the category you’re measuring

MB, I love that song, “Batuka.” The background on it is that when Madonna and family moved to Lisbon because one of her sons, David Banda, was accepted into a professional soccer club there, she began exploring the local art scene. Friends would invite her to shows and a local producer invited Madonna to a show featuring the Batukadeiras Orchestra, a group of women from Cape Verde who drum and sing in a batuque style, with Afrobeat influences. The ages range from late teens to older women, at least one of whom I noticed was blind. Madonna loved the group and asked them to collaborate with her on a new album. They recorded the song, with her son David being a co-writer. When she was getting ready to go on tour with “Madame X” she said she wanted to bring the whole Batukadeiras Orchestra with her. The concerts were done in small theaters like the Brooklyn Academy of Music Opera House, the Palladium in London, etc. Her manager objected because, he argued, bringing a huge group of VIP performers would be too expensive. Madonna insisted and well, they agreed that 14 out of 22 members would come on tour. In the show (which was recorded in Lisbon and will premiere on Paramount+ in a week or so) they first appeared roughly half-way through the show to sing “Batuka.” After an interlude the curtain goes up and they are seated in a semi-circle (as in the video) and begin to sing. Madonna appeared on extreme stage Left for half of the song, so the Orchestra is front-center. Then she joined them. They appeared in several other songs in the concert, including as the chorus in “Like a Prayer” and then in the final song “I Rise,” where the entire company walks off stage and exits through the audience and out the front door.

The famous piece that says “First they came for the socialists” has it wrong.

The first are invariably women.

The throwbacks now, after 40 years, are within reach of turning women back into domestic comfort animals. So, moving right along, as D & mb were mentioning, we get attacks on Obergefell.

They’re feeling bold enough to start on groups with men in them. We should start a Ghoul Pool on who’s next. Immigrants? That’s been done, *a lot* and is maybe a bit stale? Dirty hippie urban elite treehuggers? Kind of hard, since they can disguise themselves in business clothes and pass. Trans people? Not really enough of them for proper persecuting. /*endless screaming*/

[Seen here. Hypothetical. So far.] Obergefell is more vulnerable than anyone wants to believe. A state in the Fifth Circuit re-bans gay marriage, the Fifth Circuit defies Obergefell and upholds the ban, and SCOTUS grants cert. Easily 5-4 to overrule, if not 6-3. No clever bounty system necessary!

Totally agree with you, Q. Was having that conversation with my hubby. He was saying that anti abortion laws are distractions for the GOP. I said no, that is their policy and platform!

Great story about Madonna, D. Thanks for sharing!

Matt Negrin, Daily Show writer, calls out Chuck Todd’s obvious right-wing agenda in a must-see thread.

Queen Chancellor Hillary She’s Ours! Rodam Clinton.


Kitty break.

18 another sweet animal connection.

First time I’ve seen it so tender, I am used to seeing the mail kill her pups from a defeated male, and the female almost rips his face off.
This is much better.

@19, that’s what I was thinking too! Kept waiting for the attack from one of them. Glad it was just snuggling and grooming.

Uh, that’s the OK kind of grooming.

Yipes, @19 *male*

@22 Wow. The angle of the takeoff. Fighter jets can’t rise that steeply!

/*shakes head at the miracles I’m not even aware of*/

DYB, great post! Great title. I love GOT so much. Arya Stark is my favorite of all time. Kind of how you feel about Madonna (I think). A true, fearless heroine. I only wish mine was real like yours.

“Speaking of face-planting, the newest MAGAt rally was a bust.” Wasn’t that the BEST?! I’m still laughing about it. It was like a Dali painting. Only instead of a clock melting, it was a gun. Or… a penis. Sad!

Matthew Dowd (who is a recovering Republican like Nicolle Wallace – I think) was saying the other day that the only way to save our country is to defeat Republicans. The base has gone full on fascism (my words) and their reps are following along. We all know Mitch and Red/Pink starburst Kevin made a feeble attempt after Jan 6, but they quickly took it back when the base was ready to hang them like Pence. It makes me second guess the whole Hitler thing. Which came first? The chicken or the egg?

I don’t believe for a second that Reagan, Daddy Bush, or Jr. Bush were anti-choice, anti-gay (for christssake, Reagan was from Hollywood!) or racists (ahem, Jeb’s wife?). Reagan even gave a heart felt talk about immigrants. Isn’t that sweet? He also went to Mississippi to rally the troops for his campaign – very different message. And of course his greatest hit – “welfare queens” (black women)! And Reagan’s whole non-response to AIDS. That is sociopathic. His success was based on racism, homophobia and misogyny. And he was totally ok with that. He would just give that ah-shucks smile and say, “It is Morning again in America”. OMG. Jr. Bush won Ohio by going after gay people. He got the Black preachers to tell their people to go to polls and vote for him! Because, MYGOD! Gay People! While at the SAME FUCKING TIME, he was launching a racist smear campaign against McCain. “Would you be more or less likely to vote for John McCain…if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?”

So… Trumpism started long before Trump. Before Reagan even (who was the original MAGA) and the Bushes who followed suit.

“We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be”. (Mother Night).

They are pretending – the GOP reps.

So what to do about the snakes? The large pit of snakes called the GOP base? They are vicious and deadly (like all domestic abusers). We can’t expect them to change. I’m with Matt Dowd. The only choice is to defeat them or perish.

I watch a lot of true crime. Usually, the woman dies in a domestic violence situation. But sometimes, they win.

Aiding and abetting. I believe that’s a legal term. The GOP is aiding and abetting.

(PJ, your sentence that starts “I don’t believe for a second,” did you mean to have “were”? Sounds to me like you may have meant “weren’t”?)

Does TFG not realize he’ll have to produce records if he wants to show he really lost millions?

Former president Donald Trump has sued his niece, Mary L. Trump, and the New York Times over the publication of a 2018 article detailing allegations that he “participated in dubious tax schemes … including instances of outright fraud” that allowed him to receive over $413 million from his father, Fred Trump Sr., while significantly reducing taxes.

The suit, filed in a Dutchess County, N.Y., court on Tuesday, alleges that Mary Trump, the New York Times and at least three of its reporters “engaged in an insidious plot to obtain confidential and highly-sensitive records” about the former president’s finances. According to the lawsuit, Donald Trump suffered at least $100 million in damages as a result of the alleged actions.

Trump, unlike every other major-party presidential nominee in recent history, has declined to make his tax records public.

@27 – he’s doing it both to intimidate, and to paint himself as a victim for his brainwashed followers. He will drop the suit before it requires him to prove anything. In the meantime, he is getting his publicity, and will get more when he whines about how unfairly the court has treated him.

Unfortunately he is an absolute genius at promoting this view of himself.

Quixote, I could be wrong – who knows what is in someone else’s heart? But I don’t think Reagan or the Bushes were into racism or anti-choice or any of their bases base instincts. And yet they played into it wholeheartedly – which is just as bad. I guess that was the point I was (poorly) trying to make. Aiding and abetting. “Why officer, *I* didn’t pull the trigger. I just supplied the gun.”

I believe Trump is a true racist (maybe Reagan too – at least against black women). But Trump was never anti-choice. And yet… he stacked the Supreme Court to end choice. And he didn’t lose a wink of sleep over it.

We’ve got a problem with the FBI. On that, I agree with the numb nuts on the right (though we totally disagree on what the problem IS). Both sides hate Comey but for different reasons.

Every group has their village idiots (evil reps). I don’t even have to go back into history (and there are plenty) to find mine. Marjorie Taylor Greene is in the here and the now. Diamond and Silk are a complete embarrassment for black women. Black men have several – Larry Elder being the latest and Clarence Thomas being the most famous.

All this to say that J Edgar Hoover is a horrible rep for gay men. His name is on the building and they’ll never get better as long as they are living under his curse. A racist, misogynist POS.

(For white men, it’s the opposite. A good white man is the exception. He’s the “village idiot”).

Happy autumnal equinox! Today, day and night are exactly the same length.

I’ve only ever experienced this way of delineating when the seasons start – via solstices and equinoxes. I agree that it is quite an ancient way of doing so.

So not a typo? You have astronomical orders of magnitude more faith in people who’ve burned the humanity out of themselves than I do. Which says you have a good heart, whether or not it says anything about them!

Happy Mabon!

@34 – The Former Guy, aka Drumpf.

35, thanks MB, I thought it was Big Dump but could figure out what the letters stood for. 😉

You were right!!

What is GQP? (If I’ve got the initials right. I’ve seen it used for the GOP.

I put up a hummingbird feeder a couple of weeks ago, near a butterfly bush and where it can be seen from inside the kitchen. The hummingbirds found it quickly! I enjoy seeing them feeding and sitting on the nearby branches. It seems to have been claimed by one particular hummingbird (who looks like it’s molting) which often zips in and drives the others off. I may hang up another one elsewhere in the yard.

The ACLU has been getting crazy in the last few years. This is how bad it is now.

Here’s another issue about which to contact your Congressional Reps.

@32: I think you’re right about them, quixote.

@40 Luna, the reaction on twitter has been interesting to that ACLU tweet changing RBG’s words. People are largely criticizing them. But the same people have permanently cancelled JK Rowling for basically saying generally the same thing they are saying about this tweet. The hypocrisy is fascinating.

@38 Luna, GQP is to include QAnon into the GOP, since they have fully embraced that conspiracy theory.

@43, DYB, I’m surprised Twitter accounts are really criticizing the ACLU’s erasing “women” from RBG’s quote. Of course, I expect the people I follow on Twitter to call it out, but there are so many in media, academia, and left politics who parrot the gender nonsense. I’m with JKR — wear what you want, sleep with anyone adult as long as they consent, just don’t pretend men can turn into women or vice versa. Everyone should have basic rights, but there are legitimate reasons for same-sex spaces and sports. Human rights don’t include a man being able to claim his penis is a girldick and to be in women’s saunas. Or a woman with bilateral mastectomy and short hair demanding gay guys date her or they’re transphobic. (snort!)

Don’t know if you ever followed Mr Menno — he got kicked off Twitter, probably for stating something about biological reality. He’s got a fantastic and funny speech here.

DYB, thanks for explaining the GQP. There must be something about their brain physiology to make them so susceptible to all these crazy stories. Wonder if it’s curable.

One thing Pelosi does really well is smack down the press. (There was time she told a reporter her question was stupid and moved on to the next one.)

It strikes me as wrong to condemn a whole group of people. I think Dr. Rachel Levine is quite impressive. I saw the movie, “The Danish Girl” and was moved. How awful – how hard that could be – she died because of it. And these “women” never hurt anyone. Every group has its bad apples (as I was saying before). I don’t want to be judged as a white woman by the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene.

People make the same snarky remarks about gay people…

Looking forward to watching these Trump staffers squirm.

House Jan. 6 committee issues subpoenas for Trump aides and advisers, including Meadows and Scavino

The executive privilege questions will be especially focused on Meadows and Scavino due to their roles in the White House and access to Trump at the time of the attack. Questions to Patel would likely deal with the committee’s concerns over Trump’s communications with the Pentagon and efforts to stay in office after Jan. 20. Bannon was a leading advocate of making Jan. 6 a key moment in Trump’s efforts to stay in office.

Along with asking the Meadows, Scavino, Patel and Bannon to hand over certain records, the committee is instructing the four men to appear for depositions in mid-October.

@49 Luna, oh yeesssss!! Is that why they went hard again over Hunter Biden’s laptop yesterday?

Now let’s hope they ENFORCE the subpoenas when those bung-holes inevitably ignore them.

A white man who has failed at life can say, “At least I’m not black. Or… at least I’m not a woman.” A white woman can say, “At least I’m not black. Or Jewish (wow do white women get a lot of faux status out of christianity). Or gay.” A Jewish person and a Black woman can say, “At least I’m not gay.” A gay person can say, “At least I’m not trans.”

On and on it goes. Stepping on people to help us feel better.

@50 – this is awesome news. And quickly done.

PJ, pls quote me where I was condemning trans people. You won’t find anything. Male transsexuals (as most want to be called) — or trans-identified men — who live their lives without invading women’s spaces are not anyone I condemn nor do I condone such discrimination.

However, if anyone who is male-bodied wants to come into women’s spaces such as changing rooms, showers, and toilets, they are infringing on women’s rights to same-sex spaces, on women’s rights to privacy and dignity. A woman can’t change into a man or vice versa; that’s not transphobic — it’s simply reality. Most (~90%) men who identify as trans lately keep their male genitals. Girls and women shouldn’t have to put up with be-penised persons in their private spaces. Nor should gay men be expected to welcome trans-identified women with bilateral mastectomies into gay male spaces and pretend their bodies are male.

I object to the erasure of the word “woman” and being called “uterus-havers,” “bleeders,” or “birthing people.” This is no different from the Republicans calling pregnant women “host bodies.” We don’t see men being called “prostate-havers” or “scrotum-owners” — though I’m tempted to start doing that, lol!

As far as trans-id’d males not hurting anyone, have you heard of Karen White? This was a TiM (aka trans’woman’) who was allowed to go to a woman’s rather than a man’s prison, and who who raped 3 women there. There are a number of other examples. Sex harassment/assaults increased in Target stores when they changed to mixed-sex (aka gender neutral) restrooms. Men and boys id’ing as female take girls’ and women’s places, medals, and scholarships on sports teams. That is harm.

As for Rachel Levine, did you notice in the hearings that when questioned about puberty blockers and other medical & surgical trans conversion interventions in minors, Levine did not answer but promised ‘discussion’ only after being confirmed? Doesn’t fill me with confidence when a physician evades questions. “Puberty blockers” are drugs used in prostate cancer and other similar cases where hormone blocking is needed. Most horribly they were used on Alan Turing to medically castrate him as being gay then was illegal. These drugs are not reversible. They cause stunted growth, prevent the maturation of sex organs (in males they cause micro-penises), fragile bones, cardiac problems, and often cause sterilization. The majority (80%+) of kids with gender dysphoria are lesbian, gay, or autistic and will recover from their dysphoria during or at the end of puberty. I won’t even go on about amputating healthy body parts — breasts, penises, testicles — in “top and bottom surgery.” Kids too young to drive, vote, join the military, get loans on their own are now supposed to be able to make decisions which have irreversible consequences and affect the rest of their lives. This makes no sense.

What’s especially infuriating is that this gender woo-woo is based on stereotypes, If a boy wants to play with dolls, likes pink, or plays with cosmetics OMG! he must be trans! Young girls just starting breast development who dislike the ogling and leers they get from men and so feel uncomfortable are told to bind or chop off their breasts cause they must be trans. This is crazy. Children and people should be able to dress and behave as they like, as long as no one is hurt, without being told they’re born in the wrong body.

Adults, on the other hand, are adults. I have no problem with adults getting plastic surgery or taking exogenous hormones as long as they don’t expect others to conform to their subject beliefs about their identity.

Yes I have receipts for the above, and am happy to provide them later — I have to pack tonight for a trip out in the mountains for a few days. We don’t think it’s possible to change race nor be a good thing to pretend to be black when you’re white. Yet the opposite is supposed to be true for sex? It’s not.

LOL! Think they’ll believe it this time?

Draft report of GOP-backed ballot review in Arizona confirms Biden’s win

Seconding Luna. (Also, have a great hike!)

I didn’t actually figure out which comments PJ was responding to. As general statements, I think she’s right: there are people who get their jollies feeling better than somebody else. I’d argue there are almost no women in the “I’m better than trans category” because most women are just barely aware of the existence of trans people. Racism and religion seem to me to be the biggies for women. But anyway. The less mind space spent on people who need to stand on others, the better.

Trans people have contributed. To our military, to our politics, to our country. Danica Roem comes to mind as just one.

I don’t understand shitting on them. “Biology” is the argument used against homosexuality. Queer folks should not exist. Which is crap. It disregards that people are more than bodies. So a gay person hanging their hat on that and to continually attack trans people is just mind boggling.

Men abusing women – that’s been true since the beginning of time. If only we had a bible that told the truth… I don’t doubt there are men who abuse in this unique way.

But it bothers me. I think it’s a small percentage. That’s all I’m saying.

And if a person is born white and they feel black. So what? As long as they don’t hurt anyone. That’s their journey. Doesn’t bother me a bit. Unfortunately, the born black folk who think they’re white have caused a lot of damage. Clarence Thomas, Tim Scott, Larry Elder.

“Remember who the real enemy is. He lies to us about who we are, about who God is, about what we ought to do to survive. He lies to us about our ability to choose, about the severity of our situations, about anything and everything.”

I think, Luna and PJ, you both has very legitimate points.

I am not hearing Luna condemning trans people. I think she is frustrated with the concept of gender going so far as to erase the concept of sex. This causes the ACLU to censor the word “woman” from our wonderful RBG’s words.

This is what she calls gender woo woo. It is sexist to call women “birthing people” in an attempt to include trans men. Trans men are trans men, so why should they care about being included in the word “woman?”

I also hear her saying that young kids shouldn’t be pushed into life altering decisions like taking hormones or having surgery. A lot of times the “diagnosis” of trans doesn’t hold from adolescence to adulthood, and then what happens? They are stuck for life! What a terrible fate.

I agree that trans people have the same freedoms as everyone else and should be treated equally. What is upsetting and unfair is when they try to take over women’s spaces and harm women in the process.

BTW – the news about the “fraudit” in Arizona is delicious. Apparently Texas is auditing four counties now too because Drumpf asked them to. They’d better be prepared for what they find! Maybe Biden actually won Texas! 😂😂😂

Thank you for explaining, MB. I’m sure Luna explained it well and quixote tried to help, but I just. wasn’t. getting. it. That’s on me. But I think I’ve got it now. And I totally agree.

I’m sorry Luna!! I hope you’re off having a wonderful time.

No worries PJ! I’m happy to help where I can. I sometimes think the written word is the least effective of all human communication mechanisms. We do our best, but something like 70% of all communication is non-verbal, after all.

The topic of sex/gender/etc. is heated and people get carried away. I think I generally agree with the point JK Rowling, for example, was trying to make and is now dubbed a transphobe (TERF) for. One of her first reactions was to an article that didn’t use the word “woman” when discussing someone giving birth. So Rowling tweeted something like “Why not just say “woman?”” And all hell broke loose. This is how I summarize it. If a person is born with female genitalia, the world treats that person a certain way. HOW we treat people based on their genitalia may be a social construct, but it exists. The word treats people with female genitalia a certain way from the moment they are born. And people born with male genitalia are treated very differently. People with male genitalia have many privileges. They are not afraid of being raped in a dark parking lot. Most have not been sexually harassed. Get paid more. Given more opportunities. Have been able to advance in politics farther. etc etc etc etc. People born with female genitalia have not had these advantages. So if a person who was born and raised as one with male genitalia says at any age “I’ve always felt like a woman,” that’s fine. But the world has not treated that person as a woman. This person can not understand what it’s like to have been treated like the world treats women. A lot of people who say it doesn’t matter are the same people who say Rachel Dolezal can’t identify as black. I accept that; she can’t possibly know what it’s like to be a black woman in this world. But this applies to someone born with male genitalia. That person does not understand how the world treats women. I’ve seen Rowling articulate that point many times and it falls on death ears. There is no real discussion going on. She is simply yelled at and called “transphobe.”

I love the little page 😆 She has such a wonderful wow-I’m-here! expression 😆

Seconding DYB & mb, too.

The thing we’re all objecting to is that some trans activists (#NotAllTrans!) act like women should disappear into the background. (‘Where they belong’? Interestingly, it’s nearly never female-to-male trans who have that viewpoint.) No other civil rights movement insists on validation from others; only on having the space to mind their own business.

Side note re biology. The difference to earlier arguments against gay people: those were based on myths that used biology-sounding words. The argument with some trans activists about biology is that they’re trying to deny biological facts. You’d have a hard time finding a more bedrock biological fact than sexual reproduction. By inverting the meanings of sex and gender — pretending the social construct of gender is real and the biological fact of sex is invented — they’re trying to deny facts on the same order as flat earthers.

More re the business about disappearing women: e.g. this comment from someone speaking against the idea that women will be vulnerable if men with gross intentions can just declare themselves women to get into changing rooms and the like. “It doesn’t actually matter if women die as a result. We are talking about human rights.”

You probably did a “Wait. What?” there.

Which is the point. When you let that comment sink in, the mind behind it is saying that human beings have a right to respect. The other living things in the situation, women in this case, aren’t anywhere near that class. They’re not even near enough to have a right to life, let alone respect.

That’s not a civil rights movement. It’s something else entirely.

Love the photos of Queen Hillary 😉

Great comment on that page:
“Would have been, could have been and should have been the Best American President of our times! God bless her and keep her well!”

I am woman, hear me roar.

I am kinda staying out of the current discussion about born female and if trans women are equal. I agree with Luna, (have a safe mountain adventure), with Q and MB.
I also agree with DYB on why trans women have not lived the life of a woman and it’s not just a train you can jump on that’s traveling 70 MPH.

D and Q – 100% agree.

D – the arguments you shared are the same arguments I used with my two gay male friends, about how men who identify as women have never lived life as women and don’t have any idea what that’s like. I added that these trans women are very rarely allies of women. They don’t care about things like reproductive rights, because they don’t have uterii. They only care about what impacts THEM.

My friends (who have known me for 30+ years) were calling me TERF at first and accusing me of being right-wing! They were mansplaining to me how I should perceive women’s rights, and that wouldn’t it be amazing if the idea of “women” didn’t exist because then there would be no sexism/misogyny. How clueless can you be?! As if taking the word “woman” out of the vocabulary would somehow eliminate thousands of years of patriarchy!

It’s very upsetting that my friends’ opinion of me would be overridden by this gender woo-woo brainwashing. They know that I am extremely supportive of LGBTQ rights and have been all my life. But it didn’t matter because I expressed the opinion that trans women aren’t women in the same way as women who are born with female reproductive organs are women.

Erasing women makes me think of “colorblindness”. Erasing color. Let’s all just be white men so we can all get along.

I barely passed biology. Science is definitely not my thing. I’m so sick of hearing about Covid, I could puke. I found it interesting though… homosexuality is found in all manner of species. So… kind of blows the whole nature/biology argument. It doesn’t stop them from using it – they just couldn’t use it on me from that point on. And I didn’t even know any gay people at the time.

And the idea that men are “naturally” dominant over women. If sheer brutality ruled the day, why aren’t tigers and lions holding office? Let’s put men in an arena with a tiger and see who wins. It kind of blows the whole idea that men should be in charge because they are physically stronger and faster. There are animals much stronger and faster than them.

So a white guy decided to do an experiment. He put pigmentation in his skin. To see how it felt to be a black man. He got quite a view. But he could never get the full view; because he knew he could go back to being a white guy (Kind of what DYB was talking about). I saw a trans woman say a man said to her (something she had never heard as a man). “Why don’t you smile?” She smiled and thought “Why don’t you fuck off?” That’s such a woman thing!

It’s not the same, but it does make me think of these lines from Overboard. “You… most of us go through life with blinders on, madam. Knowing only that one little station to which we were born. But now you, madam, on the other hand, had the… rare privilege of escaping your bonds for just a spell. To see life from an entirely new perspective. How you choose to use that information, madam… is entirely up to you.”

No way, MB! That’s total horseshit. WTF?

D, love the post and agree it would be easier if we started seasons on the first of the month and had used the metric system.

Also am hugely appreciating this thread. I’ve always been liberal and want trans people to be happy and live as they please, but I’m finding the ultra left-wing activists to be really annoying lately.

A few months ago I took my worst beating on twitter when I responded to a post by Naral where they said that in order to be fair to trans men who wanted to have babies, they would no longer refer to pregnant women as women but as “birthing people.” They got a lot of pushback and I posted, with many others, that I was happy to refer to trans-men giving birth however they wanted, but that they (Naral) were erasing women. I took a lot of hits and blocked a lot of them. It’s hard to find a reliable percentage of how many people in this country are trans-men, and how many of them want to give birth, but it looks like its a really tiny number. I don’t want to be referred to by a generic noun, especially if I’m in a hospital. Can you imagine men giving up “man” or “men” and being referred to as a _________ person?

Anyway, I really like this comment of MB’s and wish I had thought of something like it that night:

“It is sexist to call women “birthing people” in an attempt to include trans men. Trans men are trans men, so why should they care about being included in the word “woman?””

Quixote@65, I looked up that tweet. Omg! When I was young, I had men follow me into restrooms to hit on me, and it was terrifying and frankly made me paranoid. I took a class at the local JC a couple of years ago (before Covid) and there were young trans women in the restroom with me at times and we were all nice and polite to each other. My husband thinks that we’re moving to the point where most or all public spaces will have to have single restrooms. There are tons of them here in SoCal. And lots of older restaurants and such with multi-stall restrooms have doors and separating walls that go from floor to ceiling.

Luna @54 interesting points! Hope you have a great trip!

Men invading women’s spaces… When I was in college, I was required by one of my classes to attend a conference on domestic violence. There was a big crowd. About five minutes into it, a guy stands up and says “what about the men? Men can be victims of domestic violence. My wife was five foot tall, so no one took me seriously. I can’t find anyone willing to listen to me.” I’m thinking, what the hell is going on here? So the lady running the conference said, “I’m sorry that happened to you. But 90% (I think she said) of domestic violence victims are women and that’s what we’re here to talk about today.”

I didn’t get anything more out of the conference. He successfully fucked it up for me. I freaked out and checked out (mentally). It did not feel like a safe space anymore. He was angry – and intimidating.

I’m crocheting a small ivory chaise longue with a matching pillow for my cat.

Happy Autumn, Widdershins.

@73 – the same exact thing happened on a thread on The Confluence, way back when I was a poster there. One of the male posters started talking about being a victim of domestic violence. Suddenly the whole thread was about him (OF COURSE). We all just stopped talking.

Turned out the guy was a complete *ssh0le and a rightwinger as well.

Good morning, Beata! Happy autumn. Your cat is going to have an entire house full of furniture soon.

I’m writing the Saturday post now!

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