The Widdershins

Veep Debate: Live Blog

Posted on: October 4, 2016


Welcome folks.  It is the Vice Presidential Debate from Longwood University in Farmville, Virginia.  Don’t worry; this isn’t a school for wayward porn stars in a video game simulation.

It’s the Faceoff in Farmville – a former talk radio host versus a former Jesuit missionary.  I’m not expecting fireworks, but there will be contortions worthy of a Cirque du Soleil matinée with Pence attempting to mansplain the Trumpanzee.


Less than flattering Trump shoulder tattoo…

Just in case the “Thrilla in Vanilla” gets too boring, here’s a debate game.  I’m sure you’ve noticed that Pence is fixated on shoulders – in particular, Trump’s shoulders.  From “standing shoulder to shoulder,” to “broad shouldered leadership,” to “shouldering the burden of leading,” it’s “shoulders, shoulders, shoulders” to Pence.

Pence also likes to talk about “movements” — “leading a movement,” or “being in a movement.”  For what it’s worth, he might be correct in the Orangesicle campaign being a “big explosive movement.”

So each time Pence brings up “shoulders” or “movement” – take a swig out of your V.P. big gulp or adult beverage and offer up a “Who’s yer ….” comment.  Or just offer a comment.

We might be so fortunate as to get a rare simultaneous “shoulder movement,” so sit back and enjoy the Farmville Faceoff.

Just because I thought it was cute...

Just because I thought it was cute…



165 Responses to "Veep Debate: Live Blog"

New favorite pundit is Nicolle Wallace. Hope she manages to get a word in edgewise between Hot Toddy, Mad Dowager and Lyin’ Williams.

Right now I”m watching a silent movie on TCM. Did not need to hear Chuckles and the rest of the crowd before the debate. And afterwards I really don’t think I’ll watch any of them for the post debate analysis.

@1: I don’t like this Nicolle Wallace. I like L & O Criminal Intent Nicole.


Courtesy of Uppity Woman, the GOP sent out a premature winner tweet about the debate.

Oh lookie here: VOX has some debate bingo cards!!

This is my guess — Pence is going to be throwing elbows to be the favorite Rethug rutabaga for 2020. He’s going to make the case that Ryan, Cotton, Cruz, and as yet unknowns are not worthy. If he goes out of his way to dump on Trump, twitter may just have to shut down tonight. Trump’s little tiny fingers might just be worked down to the nubbins.

@6: Doing so to promote…who? Himself?

Mike Pence claimed “smoking doesn’t kill” as late as 2000.

@7, yes. His ego is much larger than his I.Q. should allow. They used to say in D.C., the most dangerous place to be is between Mike Pence and a microphone. Of course that changed with Larry Craig, when the most dangerous place to be was the Men’s Room.

Well %^*%$$!!^*!@@

I put the tv on the cspan channel and I have a black screen with “No Video Input” and a counter on it that is showing hr/min/sec. I think it’s plot to force us to watch the commercial channels. Grrrrr….

@9: If you ever want, bland, nothing, sliced American cheese, that would be Mike Pence, imho.

@11, bland, nothing, sliced American intolerant bigotry wrapped in born again, evangelical, Catholicism opportunism — that would be Mike Pence.

@4 Hilarious!! And typical.

@11 meanwhile Kaine is a nice picante pimento cheese spread. ¡Ole!

@14: LOL!!

Okay we’re off to the races!!

They get to sit?

@16, they are guys.

Tim was all about Hillary. Pence-no Trump, just himself. Me me me.

Tim is taking off the gloves. Wow!

Pence. Ick.

Go Vice President Kaine!

On frickin CSPAN there are sub-screen crawls with “why do so many Americans distrust Hillary Clinton?” Not even CSPAN forsakes the sexist slant.

Tim Kaine is doing an exemplary counter, media manners (for Dems only) notwithstanding.

That asshat Pence keeps mentioning “the war on coal”?!?!

Is there a country named coal? He sounds like an idiot.

I’m glad Kaine said it was under BUSH that the forces thing in Iraq fell apart and BUSH said we’ll leave. It’s on Dubya lil Mikie.

Pence has as much charisma as a dirt clod.

@22, Yes! What the hell is cspan doing? Are they turning into Fox News or something? I wish they’d get those questions off my screen.

This has turned out to be more of a donnybrook than I expected.

It is much more raucous than I thought it would be. Tim is a brawler. They must have had a boxing team at his Jesuit high school.

I think Pence’s parents were extras on “Lost in Space.”

Oh, yay, social security not privatized!! Pence lies on this, it’s a Repub platform to privatize this. So needed to hear Kaine say absolutely -not- privatized.

@28: The Jesuits were big on “wrastlin” at least at Jesuit H.S. in nola.

Tim said shoulders first.

@31 Well, they -were- the church’s shock troops during the Enlightenment. Trained to argue a rationalist absolutely to the wall.

“Police officers are the best of us” – especially the ones that shoot unarmed people, the mentally ill, and far too many black men.

@32 All out of libations, dangit. Was it one of -those- phrases?

@36, it’s a free space drink Pat.

@34: That’s true Pat.


Pence’s argument – “I have this one black cop friend who happened to shot someone, so no more implicit bias talk, okurrr?”

With Pence’s deep set, squinty eyes, he’s one chromosome from being a serial killer.

criminal aliens…

There are lawns all over Indiana that won’t be mowed tomorrow.

@41, LOLOL!!! I’ve been thinking that!


Pence does sound like a human bean, though, unlike tRump. Aw, but “criminal aliens” – go along, Pence, go along on this.

With his soothing voice and tones, Pence is that funeral director who talks someone into getting the super-deluxe $14,000 casket because you know your loved one deserved the very best.

Build a wall beneath the ground and in the air — comma usage Gov. Pence, comma usage.

@47 Too true – and it’s the country’s funeral he’s selling.

And he didn’t defend Trump on Curiel.

@49: Totally right!

Hubs says its like “intelligent and good vs evil and stupid”.

Someone should explain to “Dence” that video is unlike a box of chocolates. You know what videos say and who is saying it.

@47 & 49, you both nailed it!

Oh god, now Pence is doing his campaign trail schtick. This is a debate, fool, not the trail.

Can I say I’m so glad it’s tRump at the top of the ticket? Not because Pence isn’t horrific, but because he doesn’t sound like it at first glance.

Notice when Dence has to think hard — it’s like he’s constipated.

“Suspending the syrian refugee program”… and also probably he constitution in the first 100 days.

I wish SOMEONE would just point out that it was Dubya who screwed up the troop withdrawal in Iraq. These false statements make me C R A Z Y!!

@55: And like Prolix said: “2020”.

The Cyber, the CYBER!!

@58, Hillary is likely to have an ad out pushing that very point tomorrow. Robby Mook is probably editing it right now.


Good comeback Tim!!

@58 Excellent point!

@57 Canada appears to have had great success in settling hundreds of thousands of refugees. Clinton -said- vetting would be exemplary (and slanted towards women and children)

@28 – I knew Tim would give as good as he gets. My mother-in-law (lives in VA) is a Yuuuuuuge Tim Kaine fan.

The moderator is fed up with Pence. He is the same as Trump. How does she not scream “SHUT UP!” I just screamed that at my TV.


The Trumpanzee is not going to like Dence talking about his BFF Putin.

Pence just goes on and on. A mindless talking point machine, and so rude to the moderator who is, not coincidentally, female.

“When Donald Trump becomes President…” 😀

@66, bingo!

Guffaw Pence! Trump is gonna be strong against the Russians? Puhleeze!!

Good! Tim is calling him on it.

@65 forgive my Church Lady imitation here, but could it be SEXISM? I wish they would both respect the moderator more.

On the other hand, the free for all reminds me of the debates of the seventies and early eighties. So many facts – just love that.

Dence and Rubio went to the same debate school. Memorize and repeat.

Love “Dence”! Wish I’d thought of it.

Absolutely cannot believe Pence is portraying Putin as dangerous. Is he hoping to erase the last couple of months of tRump’s bromance? Can he??

@74, how can he believe that people won’t remember that Putin is the Trumpanzee’s main banana.

Dence “fought in a bipartisan basis”??? Yeah right.

ZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZZ…Pence is like Nyquil.

@74: Totally spot on!

Go Kaine!

Does Dence not know about video?

Pence is lying on a Dick Cheney scale. I remember when that debate happened. I was amazed at his capability to squeeze so much falsehood into one 90-second statement.

@76 Zingo! “Let’s start with not praising Vladimir Putin as a great leader”

Oh, Tim, how could you bring up so embarrassing a fact as that tRump did not know Russia had already invaded Crimea? Have you no manners? At long last, sir, have you no manners?

@83 – Yes, Pence actually shut up for about 5 seconds when he said that.

Well said Kaine.

Tim should have said, “John McCain looks in his eyes and sees KGB,” and Donald Trump can’t spell KGB.

@84 But then he did a Russian restart, dangit!

@86 Haw!

Dence is lyin’ like a quadriplegic dog.

Ooooh, are we going to see Pence regret bring up foundations?

Why, yes, yes, I think we are.

Kaine is slicing and dicing Dence on the Foundation.

There are fact checkers all over America being rushed to ERs.

I think Pence has already lied more than Trump in his debate.

Whoa! China is coming in on sanctions against North Korea? That’s good news indeed.

Dence will talk about rounding up those Hoosier dancing teenagers and crucifying them just like that “Footloose” movie that didn’t go far enough.

Dence sounds gross and cloying on the religion question.

@93 But he sounds so much more reasonable! (I miss the sniffing)

Ohhhhhh, he said “partial birth abortion!” Earth to Dence, that’s not a thing.

Pence: “I cherish the value of every human life except the life of the mother.”

“I like to spend a little time on my knees everyday.” Pence


@98 But it does bring the whole religion vs. women issue front and center.

I haven’t seen any person belonging to an anti-abortion religion have to address this up to this point. (Pence just lied on tRump punishing women, BTW)

Kaine: “From the fullness of the heart, the mouth speaks.” SNAAAAAP!

@99 – No, that’s right. Pence is having to defend the crayzee, and he sounds like it.

@100, LOL!

Pence admits he doesn’t trust women to make their own healthcare decisions. Is that the sound of every woman in America flipping the lever for Hillary?

@105 Yessss!

@105, and a lot of men who respect and trust women.

Dence: “How can we unify the country? Let me spend 5 minutes not answering that question.”

@107 – AMEN PROLIX!!!

Dence, “Black man and womenz bad. Orange man and Christian sharia good.”

Elaine deserves hazardous duty pay.

@110 I think that got lost in the Dence’s snooze-fest (when he wasn’t on point, I found my attention wandering a lot), but yeah, shorter Dence.

@111 Absolutely!

Tweety thinks Dence won. Oh, the bar is sooooooo low for him.

Just wanted to say thanks to Widdershins for bloggin this.

Just came back from a much needed couple of days in the Smokies and the number of Trump/Pence stickers on bumpers was disheartening, to say the least. It’s so good to be among folks (many of whom are from the states with trucks sporting those stickers) who are far more rational.

Thank you for coming by PDXPat and all…and thanks so much to Prolix for the post!

CNN focus group thinks Tim won.

Pat, thanks for making this fun. Please come by often and much.

I told my sister last night that these two men would spend more time on abortion than any opportunity given to Hillary at a debate. And I was right. I think Tim did great talking about Hillary over and over while pushing Pence to defend Trump. (which he couldn’t do) Great strategy!

@119, I agree totally GAgal.

@118 Thank you, Prolix.

I did want to ask if this week was a state Everyone Go To The Smokies holiday in Ky. For some reason about every other license plate was from there. Illinois usually has that spot, but this week it was y’all.

@119 I know! All Pence could do was blather on sanctimoniously about “the unborn”.

@121, mostly I think all the KY visitors were people going down to get supplies for school lunches — looking for raccoons and well-fed squirrels.

Nosferatu Trump is on CNN right now.

@123 Ah, that explains it. Good chipmunk huntin, too.

@125, I’ll pass that along. LOL.

@102: That sounds like a Jesuitical (?) thing there.

I had to make a run to the store so I’m just now catching up on things. However the debate was on the local NPR station.

@105: I see sooo many commercials coming out of that. Not just HRC, but Emily’s list and many others.

@115: Isn’t it enough to drive you just craaazee!

@129 I had to bite my tongue not to ask them all how they felt about privatizing and further defunding that beautiful place. Sorta like “Keep the government out of my Social Security!”

The babblers on CNN have finally caught on that Pence is running in 2020. They have just figured out Cruz, Walker, Cotton, Ryan, and Jindal were the real losers.

@130: And don’t forget Medicare too!

I tried calling my friend who is in the West Palm Beach area. She has sold her house there and she was in the process of going thru furnishing to see what she was going to move to PA and what she’s just going to donate to local charities or groups. She called back and left a msg and said yeah now she’s busy putting up hurricane shutters. She has 27 windows in the house and some of them are two stories!

Her daughter was supposed to fly in from Philly to help with al of the furniture stuff and now they don’t know how or if Matthew may affect flights then.

This is CNN’s idea of fact checking: Pence says:’ You say our campaign is insult driven. Our campaign hasn’t done a FRACTION of the insults yours did when Hillary called half of our supporters deplorable.’ Umm what was the fact they were looking to check there? They didn’t include where Kaine said Hillary had apologized and Pence came back with – half. There was no fact to check there, yet they gave it Pence as true.

@133 That’s kudzu strength both-siderism.

@133 — Say whaaaat? CNN must be out of fact-checkers.

@131 I swear I just…don’t…want to watch the tawking heads.

Hey, thanks Widdershinners. I had to work late and am just now making the rounds of the Hillary blogs to see how the debate went. Yrch, Pence is even more of a heartless bastard than I thought.

@137: We always enjoy it when you come by Luna. 🙂

CNN fact checking: Pence lied about Clinton Foundation. Kaine told the truth about Trump saying other countries should have nuclear weapons. I can’t wait ’til CNN starts discussing how Pence won the debate according to their poll (not their fault) and yet Pence lied through his teeth over and over. And he couldn’t even defend Trump! This is gonna be good.

Here’s a media matters tweet of highlights of Alex Jones losing it.

Just watched a bit of the debate again. Question to Pence: Why do many Americans believe Trump is erratic? Pence starts talking about the Clinton Foundation and emails. NEVER answered the question. Elaine asked again – she allowed him to go off on another tangent.

Oh and Pence tried the ‘there you go again’ line. It went over like a lead balloon. What an idiot.

@141 Hey, the media let the Repubs use that non-issue as the deflector supreme. Why shouldn’t Pence give it another whirl? What, in his CIC’s immortal words, has he got to lose?

Pat, I thought Elaine did a decent job overall, but the very second Pence said Foundation she should have said – loudly – Gov Pence, do you need me to repeat the question? I didn’t see Kaine deflect from the question one time, but Pence did quite a few times.

@140, Bwhahaha! He actually thought Assange would have something worthwhile? ROTFLOL!

@ Fredster, I always enjoy TW commentators!

@141, yeah, that is my main irritation with “moderators.” They rarely pin the shifty Rethugs down when they evade questions.

Pence did shuffle – and far more expertly than his would-be boss (but how low a bar is that?), leaving the burning issue of tRump’s blatant illegality to go out by itself.

Maybe the networks can give the moderators megaphones? To raise as a last and visual resort when the debatees are ignoring them?

Luna, and it was important too. After all the “why don’t people like you Hillary? Why don’t people trust you Hillary? Why are Hillary’s unfavorable so high?’ No one ever asked Trump about his unfavorables which were higher. I’m a little disappointed Kaine didn’t force him back to the question. It was a real missed opportunity.

I was just watching the repeat of the MSNBC “analysis” and yes everyone voted and Mike Pence won because…what? Best imitations of a certain dead Alzheimer’s- afflicted President? Seriously I noticed a lot of Ronnie Raygun mannerisms when he was speaking and in his gestures.

Mike I got a gesture for ya:

……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
……….”…\………. _.•´

@150, from all of us.

This is a really good piece from MSN on Pence and how while he may have won the night on style, the content was appalling, and won’t fool anyone who has been paying a scintilla of attention.

He truly reminded me of Dick Cheney, not Raygun. I remember reading one pundit who said he did an interview with Dick Cheney, which he taped. Cheney had that nice baritone voice, and sounded so calm and reasonable. Then, he went back and listened to it in the car, and became so nauseous that he had to pull over. That’s Mike Pence for you.

After CNN started with their “Reality Check” last night, Van Jones said “It’s easy to win when you’re lying”. Yeah just like cheating.

I was watching yesterday when the story about Bill Clinton broke saying the ACA was the craziest thing in the world. They showed the clip. Then the pundit (I think it was Kate Bouldan) turned to the first panelist and said, “First of all, is it the truth?”. OMG! You could have heard a pin drop. Whatever everyone was about to blurt out about Bill hurting Hillary on the trail, what Obama might think, etc. just flew out the window. They actually had to stop and think for a second. It changed the whole discourse there for a minute. Maybe they should try that more often. As if.

I’m still waiting for Pence to answer this question. She tried to bring him back to it twice and he deflected to the Middle East.

QUIJANO: Governor Pence, let me ask you, you have said Donald Trump is, quote, “thoughtful, compassionate, and steady.” Yet 67 percent of voters feel he is a risky choice, and 65 percent feel he does not have the right kind of temperament to be president. Why do so many Americans think Mr. Trump is simply too erratic?

Our new reality Election 2016

One might complain with the voters for prioritizing surface appearance over substance. One might also complain with the news media for internalizing voters’ superficiality and feeding it back to them as theater criticism rather than sorting out the underlying claims. But the fact remains that the rules are the rules, and as they exist, there is usually little penalty for lying incessantly as long as you do it with proper body language and a reassuringly manly baritone.

GAGal, what’s very interesting is that Drumpf seems to have exposed not just the Republican Party’s intrinsic misogyny, racism and xenophobia, but the epic inability of the media to serve as the Fourth Estate our founding fathers and mothers envisioned.

Madamab, There will be many books written about those two subjects.

We don’t know if Trump took advantage of this when he took his big loss in 1995, but Hillary voted to correct this loophole mess while in the Senate. So maybe she did try to fix it (as Donald said) after all. Most interesting is the fact that you could claim the loss as your own even if was the bank who actually lost the money.

@152, well said!

Have you all heard all the fun new conspiracy theories that the rethugs are only supporting Trump so they can impeach him and put Dence in his place? There’s a comment at Upps that says that Evangelicals are really buying into this.

Went back to Upps to copy it:

“Eliminated?” Hmm…bizarre choice of words, no?

@161 Annie, it may not be just the evangelicals in the Republican party who are thinking that. 👿

@163, LOL! Good point!

Check out these poll numbers. Skip to 2:15 to avoid blabbering.

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