The Widdershins

Feminist Friday: Revoke My Feminist Creds – I'm Watching the SuperBowl!

Posted on: February 5, 2010

D'oh!

D'oh!

Yes, it’s true. I’m going to watch this shameless display of male supremacism on Sunday, and you know what? I’m going to enjoy it, too!

Is my blogsister Violet right about the SuperBowl being sexist? Absolutely. But here’s how I see it: in our society, which feminists agree is structured in a patriarchal manner, we are surrounded by sexism all day, every day, in every area of our lives. In this environment, it is quite easy for an awake, aware person to go completely insane from the barrage of  anti-woman, misogynist propaganda. For Goddess’ sake, on my way to work I have to see ads for a sex toy shop, with a headless woman’s body being pawed by male hands. (I find the fact that the woman has no head robs her of volition, which connotes rape to me, not consensual sex.) In the subway, I see posters for a new show called “Caprica,” which  is about artificial intelligence and cloning, so of course, they display a picture of a naked woman with an apple! Makes perfect sense. Cloning = science = teh Bible = wimminz are teh EVIL and tempt you to defy God by trying to transcend humanity! Booga booga!

The CBS (surprise!) crime drama, “CSI New York,” recently did a show that prominently featured female football players. Empowering role reversal, right? Not so fast! They were in a “lingerie league;” i.e., they played football in their (Victoria’s Secret) underwear. Illegal forward pass, CBS! (The women wore “protective” pink shoulderpads and helmets and shinguards, though. All righty then.) It was possibly the most sexist thing I’ve ever seen on TeeVee.***

***Oh, who am I kidding? Bridezillas? Hung? All the shows about the poor little toddlers who are forced to compete in beauty contests? Everything on Lifetime “Television For Women?” Choosing the most sexist thing on TV is like trying to eat only one dark chocolate truffle from La Maison du Chocolat. Mmmm….chocolate…arglarglarglargl…

Ahem. My point is, there are certain types of things that really press my buttons, yet probably don’t annoy other feminists nearly as much. When the very air you breathe is contaminated with patriarchal excreta, there are filters you must apply in order to survive. Although I wouldn’t care if football never existed, or if it stopped existing tomorrow, I see it as a symptom of patriarchy, one of billions; and one that isn’t nearly as bad as the constant reinforcing of negative female stereotypes in our television shows, movies and advertisements. It’s probably my background as an artist that makes me see the patriarchy this way, but I tend to dwell on cultural sexism much more than sports sexism.

So, I ‘ll watch the SuperBowl, while other feminists find it disgusting and untenable. I think that’s okay. There’s plenty of outrage to go around.

Oh, and here’s an activist idea: if that ridiculous Pam Tebow ad does, in fact, air after all the calls and letters and protesting (in which I did participate, thank you very much), why don’t we all change the channel? CBS will be scrutinizing who watches what type of ad very closely in order to see which ads to purchase next year, and I think it might make quite an impression if our eyes were elsewhere during that inappropriate and hateful moment in time.

What do you think? Have I lost all my feminist creds because I think Drew Brees and Peyton Manning are great football players, and I enjoy drinking and having fun with my husband? Heck, do I lose my creds because I HAVE a husband? And are YOU going to watch the Super Bowl? (We can have a liveblog and drinking game that day too, folks, if you want it!)

This is an open thread.

About these ads

145 Responses to "Feminist Friday: Revoke My Feminist Creds – I'm Watching the SuperBowl!"

Naw, I’m not watching. But only because I don’t watch football anymore, usually. Although after reading this, maybe I WILL watch it but ff through the nauseating Tebow ad. As you said, that could show CBS how much people care about that horrible ad.

The reason I find this all so insidious and vomit-provoking is that any sort of boycott won’t have much of an effect anyway, given the usual audience for the Superbowl, yet there it is out there encouraging men to think they can have an opinion about women’s right to control their own bodies just because ‘Mommy’ told them so. It’s exploitative and manipulative in so many ways.

But you’re right, it’s hardly possible to live in this world without having to have some pretty strong filters.

I haven’t seen that Caprica ad but your description bums me out! Battlestar was such a good show, although a lot of the ads for that sucked, too. In fact I didn’t watch it the whole first season bc all the ads were so aimed at drooling adolescent boys. But then it turned out to be not about half-naked models running around so much as real drama and really interesting questions about society and what it is to be human. But from watching the Caprica pilot and other ads, I think it’s really going to be the usual cookie-cutter crap with babes and explosions and other male young brain-candy. They’re ruining the franchise!

I am a feminist and I have always loved sports. Football is an exciting game. And, of course, being from Indiana, I will be watching the Super Bowl. I wouldn’t miss it.

GO COLTS!!! PEYTON IS THE GREATEST QB EVAH!!!

I’m not going to apologize to anybody for watching the game. I love to watch football. I have watched every Superbowl, it’s a part of who I am. I do have some rules regarding the Superbowl. I watch the game. I turn down invitations to Superbowl parties because I love to watch the game. I can’t stand Superbowl parties where the women gather around the food and blab while the men watch the game, and I don’t want to expose myself to social pressures to join the women rather than watch the game with the men. I’ve experienced this in the past from women who think I’m trying to prove something or think I’m trying to steal their husbands, and now I just stay home with my family, prepare a lovely nosh, and enjoy the game. I’m not going to spend Superbowl Sunday trying to prove anything to anyone, I’m just going to enjoy a great football game.

No, MB, you haven’t lost any feminist cred, and to hell with anyone who says otherwise. It’s your day, you can watch whatever the hell you want.

I intend to change the channel during the Tebow ad. I don’t know if it will matter, but that’s what I’m doing.

I’m with you, Beata. Go Colts.

Ah, well. As we all know, if enjoying football was grounds for revocation, mine would be revoked retroactive to their inception. I plan to enjoy the game, enjoy all but one of the commercials, munch a $10 Papa John’s pizza, and prepare myself for The Dark Times to follow. A drinking game would be fun.

Whew! I thought I was alone in the femiverse after reading Violet’s thread. The thing is, they’re right, but I just can’t be outraged by EVERYTHING. I burn pretty hot, so I’ve got to pick my battles where I feel that they’ll be effective.

I feel like having scantily-clad cheerleaders at sporting events is something that will be affected from the top down, not from the bottom up. Once we get equal rights under the law, we will have avenues by which to protest such demeaning displays.

Till then, I’m watching (and cringing a bit).

By the way, I would suggest, if the Tebow ad comes on, that we actually change channels rather than FF-ing. I don’t think CBS will be able to tell what we’re doing unless we switch away from them for just that exact period of time.

Sounds like a plan.

Switching the channel during the Teebow ad only matters to CBS if you have a Nielsen ratings box. Although cable companies have the ability to know what we are watching at any given time through our cable boxes – I’m not sure that has anything to do with the official Nielsen numbers.

DYB, are the Nielsen numbers the only ones they’ll look at? I would think that if the switch is big enough, there would be a blip that CBS would have to notice.

Dunno, just thinking of SOMETHING we can do other than the petitions, calls, etc.. I don’t think a boycott of the event itself would be effective, since so many of those saying they’ll boycott also say they don’t usually watch it anyway. Plus, there will be 94 million people NOT boycotting it, so who do we think CBS will care more about?

If the people who are watching it protest the ad itself, though, by switching channels, we might just be able to make a bit of a splash.

Food for thought. I’m doing it, that’s for sure. No way I’m watching that sanctimonious, hateful ad. Shame on you, Pam Tebow and CBS!

BTW – we had a fake Valhalla on this thread. It’s been spaminated. Our real Valhalla can still post, though.

[...] 5, 2010 I lol’d cuz this is cool and full of linkys Posted by thedailyhavis Filed in wtf Leave a Comment [...]

Blimey! Revoke my feminist creds!
I just found out what they really believe!!
http://www.feministsforlife.org/history/foremoth.htm#sbanthony

Awwww, Sue – no fair linking to “pro-life” “feminists”! I happen to believe that being pro-choice is a pre-requisite for today’s feminism. That’s why I’m not a PUMA any more.

I lived across the street from a house of professional female football players. Very scary people and not a bit of lingerie to be seen (praise God).

I’m so with you on the objectification of women. I have a prediliction toward it, but am not proud of it and would prefer temptation be non-existant.

Rob @14 – Hmmmm…temptation is in the eye of the beholder, one would think. In Saudi Arabia and other countries ruled by Islamic fundamentalists, a woman must be covered from head to toe or she is seen as a temptress.

The idea is not to avoid temptation, but to treat the women to whom you are attracted like people, not like objects of desire.

Totally off topic but I have to say, the widdershins is the only internet site I can get…my yahoo…facebook….etc is so slow or non-existent…
I wonder if my connection is running through the big storm or what?

I don’t really care for football (the two live games I saw part of were fun though) but I hear ya about the separation of women into the kitchen and men gazing at the tube. Reminds me of the ASSUMPTION that all women are really, REALLY interested in parties in which you are expected to dig deep into your pocket to buy some overpriced crap or other. Sheesh, give me a football party any time, and I’ll dig deep for a bet or two.

A football party that I’m not hanging out in the kitchen that is….

Madamab, nice piece. I personally don’t enjoy football but it doesn’t get under my skin the way sexist advertising or other television programming does (like “The Bachelor” — ugh!).

On the subject of TV, here is a link to the unedited appearance by Jon Stewart on O’Reilly’s show: http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/2010/02/05/jon-stewart-on-the-oreilly-factor-complete-and-unedited/

At the beginning, Stewart kind of dances around Obama’s performance but later has a great response to the bogus claim that “Obama is a socialist.” Stewart points out that Obama gave $ to the banks, so “if he’s a socialist, he’s dyslexic.” He then goes on to excoriate Fox News for its hypocrisy and its blurring the line between news and opinion. It’s a long clip (maybe 20 min.) but if you have time, it’s fascinating TV. He is one smart guy. Very funny line about Dick Morris, too.

A fake Valhalla! The nerve…

madamab, I think ffing will work, bc I have Tivo, and they track the commercials very closely. DVR numbers are not as important as Nielsen numbers, but I know they track the ad data, so they can sell it to advertisers and networks and stuff. Periodically, Tivo comes out with % of viewers watching ads down to 10-or 15-second increments (because, bizarrely, a lot of DVR owners DO still watch commercials!).

@19 – Aha! Sounds good, (the real) Valhalla. All right folks, if you’ve got Tivo, fast-forward through the Tebow ad instead of switching channels! I’m getting my DVR fixed today (supposedly), so I’ll do the same.

Jules – Awesome, thanks!

Sharon – I hear ya. I agree with Janicen’s point about not going to a football party where you are expected to go off with teh wimminz instead of watching the game. Although frankly, I wouldn’t mind that very much – I’m only watching because my hubby makes it fun.

At the last party I went to, it was like something from a Jane Austen novel. My husband brought cigars, and the men went onto the sunporch for sherry and smokes, while the kids played in the living room and the women went into the parlor to play piano, sing and talk. It was quite hilarious the way the gender dynamics worked out.

It actually was fun for me. I miss the companionship of my girlfriends from college, who all live in different states and have husbands and families. Even though their husbands are great and their kids are awesome, I love it when I can just see them by themselves.

Sigh.

BTW – check out our new and improved blogroll! I’ve updated with all your suggestions from last Sunday.

The thing with fast-forwarding through a live program is that…you can’t be watching it live! It has to be on some sort of delay, even if it’s 30 seconds. You can’t fast forward into the future! So if you plan to fast-forward through anything you have to watch the game on a slight delay.

MB> That is hilarious about the Jane Austen football ball.

I find football boring, but I’m more than willing to live blog and drink. After all if we survived Obama’s SOTU what could be worse?

PS: Has anyone heard from Fuzzy since the speech? Is he still recovering from the world’s longest hangover?

@23 – It wasn’t even football – it was just a regular party! The guys didn’t even watch TV – they retired into the “smoking lounge.” :lol:

@24 – BBS – Fuzzy has been back several times. It would take a lot more than one night of drinking to bring that man down! :-D

I just really LOVE sports! I happen to come from a family where the women were bigger sports fans than the men.
One grandmother played shortstop in a women’s baseball league ( as in “A League of Their Own” ) The other grandmother was a rabid life-long Cub fan. At the age of 97, when she was on her deathbed, the priest asked her if she thought the Cubs would ever win another World Series and she replied, “Not in my lifetime.” Then she died.
My mother and her sisters were all big football fans. When my sainted mother ( her lovely picture is my avatar ) watched a really important game, she was known to yell things like, “Break some necks!!!”
My male relatives were never interested in sports for some reason. My father would go into another room and read when my mother watched football. LOL.

Beata – :lol:! The women in your family are amazing.

Your father sounds like me when I was growing up. I would actually bring books to the Orioles games we went to when I was a kid! My dad, brother and uncle are all huge sports fans, though.

My grandmother was a major (San Francisco) Giants fan. Whenever they would play the Dodgers, she’d yell at the TV and call the Dodgers “fascists.” She also loved tennis, which she played into her late 70′s. I think she passed her love of sports along to her sons and grandson. Her husband, my grandfather, was an opera fanatic and a gambler (although a lot more reckless than I am, unfortunately). I seem to have inherited more of his genes than my grandma’s!

@25 thanks, MadamaB. I have been swamped with work this week, and am just catching up on the imporatant things in life…like, laundry,…and blogging…

Of course you are an A-1 feminist!! And (oh gosh, I can’t even type, I’m so tire, so please forgive the typos..it looks like a six year old) OK, Yes, I find cultural everyday sexism much more offensive than a sports event. Particularly the whole female body beauty thing. I am way OT here, but if I watch the game, I can tell you I will be as offended by the gyrating near naked cheerleaders as the pro-life ad.

Must go get a strong cup of coffee. My brain is not connecting to my fingers here!

Hey everyone,

Guess what? I just got this email:

Congrats! Your post (This post ) has just been promoted to the homepage of WordPress.com. Keep up the good work!
Thanks a million,
The WordPress.com Team

Will wonders never cease!

Please don’t take away my creds! I will be watching the Super bowl just because I love sports. Yes, football is one of them. I don’t think that makes me any less of a feminist. I just choose my battles. And if there are any ads I don’t like, I switch to something else. Meh!

Via Corrente:

Dennis Kucinich, as usual, gets it.

We should pay careful attention to the message of the Massachusetts election. And that message is to focus on the economy. To make sure that we have jobs programs that can put millions of people back to work. To make sure that we have programs to help those one-out-of-every-three Americans, who is upside down on their mortgages, to save their homes. To make sure we protect people’s investments, their savings and their retirement security.

The verdict in Massachusetts was a verdict on the overall economy. But it was also a commentary on how the entire health care debate was flipped upside down by insurance interests who were able to intervene so that the final product that was offered out of the Senate was nothing more than a sell-out to the insurance industry.

We can still have health care reform in America. We need to take a short-term and a longer-term view. On the short-term: We need to take away the antitrust exemption that insurance companies have. We need to make sure, on the short-term, that we can see everyone with a pre-existing condition have access to insurance. There are things that we can do with single-initiatives to help regain the momentum on health care.

And for the longer-term: The answer is “Medicare for All.” The answer was never to continue to give the insurance companies one out of every three dollars in our health care system.

So….has someone been making you feel guilty for watching the superbowl?

Vallhalah-What no fake fuzzy bear! I am appalled they wont even do a fake me!

Lily – It’s in the post I linked in the second paragraph. It’s a great post, worth the read.

@ 29: Congrats, MB!

Now the entire blogosphere will know the secrets of my nutty family. :wink:

@29; way to go!!!!!

I am a little perplexed. Referring to the Tebow ad- If you are in fact, pro-choice, isn’t the choice of life just as equal as the choice of abortion? Or are you pro-abortion? (Which wouldn’t make you a feminist now would it?)
It seems that as a “pro-choice feminist” that you wouldn’t condemn a woman for making the choice of life.

Oh, Serenity, don’t give me that bullshit.

1) “Pro-abortion” doesn’t exist. It’s typical “movement pro-lifer” booga booga scare tactics. I am pro-choice.
2) I don’t condemn Pam Tebow for deciding to have her baby. I condemn her for spending $2 million dollars to advertise her personal choice during the SuperBowl in an attempt to convince other women to follow her lead.

Her choice is none of my business. It worked for her. And my choice is none of her business. It works for me.

Thanks for playing. You have a nice day now, y’hear?

Serenity,banish thy perplexment! No one is condemning Pam Tebow for her choice. We would simply ask that the Tebows and Focus on the Family not condemn anyone who chooses differently. We would also ask that CBS air other morality commercials as well. If they have no taste for that, then refrain from moralizing altogether. Life is not a one-way street.

This is about staying the fuck out of my living room with her choices! And if CBS is going to air this ad they need to start airing some of those liberal ads they previously banned, including a completely inoffensive gay dating site commercial they banned this year.

Pro-abortion doesn’t exist??? …. Try telling that to the Planned Parenthood CEO who told staff “We need more abortions” in order to make more money to keep from closing more of their offices.
Planned Parenthood intends to continue the exploitation of women. We need to ask ourselves if this is something that we really want to be a part of?

Serenity, do you have a video or audio link to Planned Parenthood CEO saying that? Or is this something you read on Sarah Palin’s facebook page?

Serenity @41: Link to the Planned Parenthood CEO’s supposed remark, please?

Madama – I don’t believe that if you enjoy the SuperBowl, that automatically means your feminist credits are negated – and if some feminists believe that – well, that’s just foolish – a whole heck of a lot of women enjoy sports of one kind or another, and unfortunately sports is still a man’s world, so the advertisers and team owners play to that demographic. Good idea about changing channels or ffing past the ad.

41 – Serenity – why are you here? You, according to your website are a fundamentalist born again Xian. Your proselytizing and deliberate misinformation (provide a credible link to the PP CEO accusation – and not one that includes the misinformation from Abby Johnson) are tiresome.

:lol: Serenity. Please. You’re not fooling anyone here with your lies about Planned Parenthood.

The pregnancy complication from which Pam Tebow was suffering was placental abruption, a frequently deadly condition for both mother and fetus. The fact that Ms. Tebow beat the statistical odds and safely delivered a healthy child does not make it appropriate for her to advise others (even indirectly) to ignore conventional medical wisdom and do the same. Considering that at the time of her pregnancy, she had four other children who would have been left motherless had she died, her “choice” might be considered by many as selfish and irresponsible.

Neither Focus on the Family nor the Tebows (mother and son) support a woman’s right to choose her own course of action when facing complications of pregnancy. They wish to impose on all women their religiously motivated view that every pregnancy be carried to term. For this reason, the ad is dishonest and manipulative.

Amen, Nell! Amen!

Amen, Sister Nell.

Nell @46: Thank you for your insightful comments.

Back to the topic of CBS: Perhaps we should just boycott CBS altogether, commencing Monday. I can watch NCIS and Numbers On Demand.

Hmmmm…now THAT might make a splash, Chatblu. What do people think about that?

I only watch CBS for sports now anyway. I wouldn’t be able to give up their NCAA basketball game coverage ( sorry! ).

The only thing I watch on CBS is “The Amazing Race.”

I watch a lot on CBS, but I’m willing to give it up for a good cause!

I totally hear you, sometimes the amount of anti-fem media, actions and people in the world can really wear you down. However, I think being a feminist is not just about advocating human rights and taking note of these issues, it’s also embracing the choices you are free to make as a woman. Watch the Super Bowl, have fun, be merry! Plus, if we feminists don’t watch it, who will talk about all of the sexists ads? Love your blog — I will be following your future posts. Happy Super Bowling ;)

Thanks, Christa! And also with you. :-D

OT, but…I just saw this story at Alegre’s place about Al Franken getting in Axelrove’s face. Go, Al, Go!

Sens.[sic] Al Franken (D-Minn.) put pointed health-care-related questions to senior adviser David Axelrod following Obama’s speech, multiple sources tell the Huffington Post. He was echoed by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-V.T.) The gist of their concern was that the administration has not shown enough leadership to get legislation passed through Congress in the wake of the party’s defeat in the Massachusetts Senate election. Franken insisted that “he really needed to know if the White House was going to lead,” according to one Democratic aide.

madamab: OK, I read that post you linked to and actually agree with it. I guess it did not make me feel guilty though if I wanted to watch the superbowl. (which I don’t)

See, Lily, I agree with it too, but I also don’t feel guilty. I’m picking different things on which to concentrate my feminist outrage. :-)

Hey, the “Ellen” show just started with a gospel group performing a rousing rendition of “When the Saints Go Marching In.” And Ellen is wearing a Saints jersey with Drew Brees’ name on the back.

Something tells me Ms. DeGeneres is a bit of a Saints fan!!!

Oh MB-they can’t take away your feminist creds just cuz of a football game!

And here’s a thought on the commercial…people look for the “funny” commercials that are aired on CBS. Once this thing starts how many guys and women do you think are gonna say “hmmmm…pee break.” I’ll do both-flip the channel and do pee break! :-) No sense in letting a perfectly good break in the game go unused. ;-)

Now the big question: How many of you are gonna get crunk during and after the game?

FWIW-I had to look up crunk. I’ll have a bottle of something sitting here but not sure if I’ll get crunk. not so much fun alone.

Oh and we Saints fans are gonna invoke the prayer of our last “good” archbishop that he wrote when the team was formed:

1968 Prayer: ‘Saints Conquered Kingdoms’
NEW ORLEANS — On All Saints Day in 1968, the New Orleans Saints were born,
and not without the blessing of the local Catholic Church.

Fearing that naming the team the “Saints” would be viewed as sacrilegious,
but with the desire to do so as the announcement would come on all Saints
Day, the owner went to then Archbishop Philip M. Hannan for permission. Not
only was permission granted, but Archbishop Hannan became an original “Who
Dat” — a long-time fan that still attends the Saints home games.

At the inaugural Saints and Sinners Dinner, Hannan presented the “Prayer for
the Saints.”

God, we ask your blessing upon all who participate in this event, and all
who have supported our Saints. Our heavenly father, who has instructed us
that the “saints by faith conquered kingdoms… and overcame lions,” grant
our Saints an increase of faith and strength so that they will not only
overcome the Lions, but also the Bears, the Rams, the Giants and even those
awesome people in Green Bay.

May they continue to tame the Redskins and fetter the Falcons as well as the
Eagles. Give to our owners and coaches the continued ability to be as wise
as serpents and simple as doves, so that no good talent will dodge our
draft. Grant to our fans perseverance in their devotion and unlimited lung
powered, tempered with a sense of charity to all, including the referees.

May our beloved “Bedlam Bowl” be a source of good fellowship and may the
“Saints Come Marching In” be a victory march for all, now and in eternity.

and to add to the arch’s prayer: May they curb the Colts!

Geaux Saints!!

Oops! Me@61. Meant to say people look for the funny commercials on the Super Bowl. Sorreee.

Oh Lord, it makes me crazy when people pray for football results.

Don’t you think the Goddess has better things to do than worry about who wins a football game?! :lol:

Gotta get going. Later, all!

Oh and I could only listen to about 2 minutes or so of that vid.

MB-I think the arch meant it in jest.

As a guy, I can say that I will not be watching the game. Sports has rarely interested me, and also I find little enjoyment in watching people deliberately engage in actions likely to injure themselves or others. Oh, well, my two cents worth.

So now Obama admits that his healthcare reform may die.

http://tinyurl.com/Obama-says-healthcare-may-die

What I find really insane is that Obama’s new solution is to sit down and speak to Republicans. Rewind! Who has he been talking to until now? Lieberman? Nelson? Landrieu? These people are not Democrats! He’s been talking to Republicans all along. How about sitting down and talking to the Democrats for a change!

And it also really pisses me off to see Obama and Pelosi and all the rest of them saying “it’s time to extend healthcare coverage to all Americans.” No, back up. What you are doing with this bill is extending Americans’ money to the healthcare industry. Big difference!

May I ask, in all seriousness, what is so nauseating about an ad where a woman describes the story of her son’s birth? And why, if one calls oneself pro-choice, does one so vehemently want to shut the other choice up? I thought it was about choice – so why did you take part in a campaign to shut Tim Tebow up? Because someone seeing the ad might think twice before having an abortion – and this is a bad thing? Just wondering. People keep telling me they’re pro-choice, but I’m not seeing any respect for the choice of life, only abortion…I type OB-GYN charts for a living, and every day I read about that tiny little beating heart beginning at four weeks on up. I can’t help but think that the most misogynistic thing of all is men who use and impregnate women and then expect them to just terminate the life growing inside. It’s against our nature to destroy what we long to protect. We’ve allowed society to dictate values to us that work best for selfish men, and we go right along with it, much to our detriment. If women stopped giving in, where would men be? They might actually have to respect us. Hmmm.

I’m waiting for an all-female super bowl. Now THAT would be some serious ball playin!

Who are you rooting for Madam?

I would like to see the Saints win it. If they ( the Saints ) play the way they played against Minnesota and if they attack Manning the way they attacked Favre…it’s going to be a long painful night for poor Archie’s boy!

And this is for DYB…..

KILL THE BILL!

or if you prefer…

Have a GREAT WEEKEND EVERYONE!

Well looks like the “Pro-keep women subserviant to Str8 men” Tr0lls are out in force today at the wiedershinns…I am shocked that any self respecting feminist would roll out the tripe they did….

Serentiy and Sue seem to be plants I bet they ae really middle aged men hiding behind nice freshly washed 30 something women avatars!

Look the point of pro choice movement is to defend the embattled access to abortions/pregnancy terminations to women who CHOOSE not to Carry to Term from being over run humiliated harrassed and killed by the vocal intollerant patriarchy and their Judas goats….

The proof of your lying Sue and Serenity is that no one is going into your churches temples and synagoges in planned parenthood uniforms dragging pregnant women out in the streets a forcing them to have abortions!

No one is going into natural childbirth classes and blowing them up because they are filled with pregnant women who refuse to abort. No one is shooting in cold blood and murdering the leaders of these classes as they go to work…

The fact that women have the choice/right to carry their pregnancies to term regardless of risk to them or the fetus/unborn child is self evident you selfish ignorant uninformed mouthpieces for dominionist jackassed pricks!

You are both wack jobs…a pox on both of you!

sorry fuzzybear had to get this off his furry chest!

Fuzzy, agree

Sue, and all the rest of Serenity’s friends/sock puppets – choice means being in total and complete charge of one’s body – something all men withought exception enjoy today. Choice means decisions that are subservient to no other’s will and/or influence. Choice means having access to the medical necessities such as health education, birth control education, choices regarding birth control – in an objective and non threatening, non judgemental environment, because, quite frankly it’s nobody else’s business. And quite frankly Sue, if you really are working in an OBGYN’s office, you need to resign, because obviously you view women as a vessel, rather than a human being with the intelligence to make a CHOICE. Bleeping ell, is this the best you people can do? Oh, wait, the pro-life people kill Doctors who actually believe that women are intelligent enough to make decisions for themselves. Ever read Handmaid’s Tale?

And Fuzzy, I particularly like your comment about these people actually being middle aged men hiding behind female names and avatars – wouldn’t be the first time, and certainly won’t be the last. How bleeping pathetic is that?

thanks HT and really as a person who was on the front lines in pensacola fl0rida when nut bags were blowing up womens health clinics and shooting doctors who were preforming a legal protected procedure I can tell you…

I did not see one Natural Child Birth Instructor shot nor one one natural child birth class bombed!

Really you would think it was “anti-choice” wthat is under attack!

This borders on rediculous!

sorry you all missed it yesterday! I was in the middle of lunch and (knock, knock, knock) I looked thru the peephole and it was two mormon Elder Missionaries standing at my door they waived at me so I was trapped! I opened the door told them I was home on a tight lunch hour hoping they would get the drift…and they just stood there like I was St Nick telling them no bike or train set for xmas…finally I had to shut the door on them. I dont like being rude! I will tell you I did not enjoy my Baloney and Cheese on Whole grain high fibre bread! Being rude ruins my appitite!

Fuzzy, it’s gone beyond ridiculous – it’s a pathological desire to control every person who thinks or behaves differently from their proscribed agenda – gays, women, mentally ill – if they don’t tow the proscribed formula or lifestyle requirements, then they are throwaways. Not all pro-life, just a big enough chunk. As for protesting at clinics – why? To embarrass and shame fellow human beings into following their own ideas of what is acceptable, not because they care, just because they want to control. If they cared, why are the children waiting for adoption numbers so high? Perhaps these people’s energy would be better spent in making the world a better place for children, rather than focusing on a woman’s body and her right to self determination. I suppose that wouldn’t be as glamorous, because these days the Pro-Life crap is a self sustaining industry, pulling in millions of dollars from gullible people, a part of which they use in advertising budgets which cost a phenomal amount of money. They are an industry.

P.S. Fuzzy, I know I’m gonna sound like the health police, but baloney? Not good for the cholesterol factor. I do love jam and cheese however, so who am I to comment? And I love bacon and cheese tea biscuits – make them all the time, then put jam on them – yeah – just made fresh bread – jam and cheese sounds like the ticket. (homemade jam btw – not as sweet, cause less sugar, but oh so good)

I love Jam!

I do not eat baloney often it is consumed in utmost moderation!

Aren’t tr0lls grand?!

As long as it’s in moderation – go for it. As a confirmed lurker, I’ve grown very fond of many commenters, and you are right up there at the top, so you need to keep healthy. (I only decloak when I feel the pressure). How’s the weekly dinners with the Obots going?

DYB, yeah, even as a lurker, I get a bit perplexed. Why do they waste their time in coming to blogs that they know are not receptive to their crapola? Attention deficit disorder, stupidity, or a desire to grandstand? Beats me – their pathology is only understandable to their inner selves, cause it sure does not make any sense whatsoever.

HT> I wonder if they got an instruction from Sarah Palin (via twitter) to go out and make a post on at least one blog she wouldn’t agree with.

thats funny DYM- dinners have been good they are coming around to believe Obama/Pampers is not the liberal they thought he was!

Palin uses twitter? I cannot believe that??

DYB, well, that could explain it to some degree – but why would they blindly follow instructions – and in this I include all the OBot trolls. Are they totally incapable of critical thinking that they don’t understand they will only annoy at best – anger at worst the people in the neighborhood? Do they not have the intelligence to discern that their may be a disconnect between their concepts and those of other people? Are they that stupid? For example, I don’t post at pro life websites and annoy them with my equality for all diatribes, or worse, my atheistic non beliefs. Proselytizing, I’ve come to believe, is a blight on society, regardless of it’s origin. JMHO, but jeebus, it’s getting tiresome.

HT> I think “proselytizing” is where it’s at, with or without Palin and friends.

Fuzzy> Yes, I’m sure Palin twitters!

Sue – How exactly can you work in an OB/GYN office and have such archaic views? The Tebow ad is hypocritical because Mrs. Tebow was indeed given a choice! She was given a choice that many women do not get!

I suggest you stop working at the OB/GYN as soon as possible.

This is for my buddy, Fredster:

I concur.

Yes, of course it is all women’s fault that they get pregnant because they “give in.” Heaven forfend that we should have our own sexual desires. It’s our job to keep men in line, and our responsibility to be “good.” Why? Because we are, inherently, evil.

All “pro-life” evangelists feel this way. There is no such thing as a “pro-life” feminist because at the bottom of their philosophy is misogyny.

BTW Fuzzy, GREAT RANT! Love ya baby!

RD62 – I am leaning towards the Saints. I do love me an underdog! But really, I have no preference. If the Jets or the Giants were playing I’d be rooting for them, of course. I’ll be psyched no matter who wins.

Hey, if women don’t appreciate men and everything that they stand for, WHO WILL? Huh?

Google “Is Abortion Fatal” – if you dare to. Do it before Sunday.

Lifeaftereighty, aren’t you a pisser?

I appreciate your spirit, but you’re talking to the wrong people here. Have a good night now.

Serenity, I don’t think we’re going to give you any more of our attention. You have nothing interesting to say and we completely disagree with your point of view. Plus, your arguments are complete BS.

I don’t know how many ways we have to say it. Go away and don’t come back, and take your fellow woman-hating, lying trolls with you.

And Sue, you can leave too. You are just lying through your teeth, pushing the typical anti-choice, womanhating bullshit that your male masters tell you to push.

The simple, simple, simple fact is, no one is telling you what to do. Why is it so hard for anti-choicers to accept that we don’t want you telling us what to do?

What.

I.

Do.

with.

My.

Body.

Is.

None.

Of.

Your.

Fucking.

Business.

Fuck you. Goodbye.

[...] also found another woman that is going against her better judgement and watching the game with the rest of us sports fans. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Killzone 2 [...]

(Well, you have revealed your narrow mindedness by deleting my other comments)

Madamab, you believe that there are no pro-life feminist? You are incorrect. I would encourage you to seek out these women. They may actually surprise you with the feminism they embrace.

I came to this blog because I am an advocate for women and your very misleading “feminist friday” caught my attention.

I love that so many of you have stooped to the level of name calling. That doesn’t make for a very intellegient exchange of ideas. It certainly reminds me that many women who call themselves feminist are just regurgitating what they read while spending endless hours looking at blogs. When challenged, they can’t come up with a more intelligent thought than to call the other person a “troll”.

Planned parenthood exploits women. I suppose that your version of feminism is okay with this.

And to HT, I am a foster parent. I do care about children so if the number of children waiting for adoption is high, it isn’t my fault.
Now, I have no desire to spend all evening playing on the computer. I hope that you all have someone special to spend your Super Bowl weekend with….I know I do.
And ummm….Geaux Saints!

Women still sometimes die in childbirth so anti-choice people should STFU.

You know, I can’t really muster up any enthusiasm for professional football (but that has nothing to do with being a feminist… college football is just where it’s at for me). But I never really pondered football being sexist. I guess I am also more concerned with the misogynist crap that flies around seemingly unnoticed (especially by my 18 year old students at the university where I teach). I am more worried about our constant used of “unwed mother” (how many “unwed fathers” do we talk about?) and the continual implication that a woman can’t make an informed decision about her own reproductive health. So, I am all with you about turning the channel during the Pam Tebow ad. Tell CBS they can shove their anti-choice message. Thanks for the suggestion. Never would have thought of it… and we can all satisfy our curiosity about the commercial later on youtube.

Enjoy the Super Bowl!

I guess “Serenity” @98 has another e-mail account with an avatar that shows her true self, even though she spends so little time online. LOL.

Serenity is a regular saint!

And right on Sharon! Lifeaftereighty needs to Google “Women die in childbirth” if he dares.

What Serenity and the rest of that clan don’t get is: DON’T TELL OTHER WOMEN WHAT THEY CAN AND CAN NOT DO WITH THIER OWN BODIES. Nobody here gives a rat’s ass what you do with yours. STAY OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE’S BEDROOMS AND DOCTOR’S OFFICES. Is this a difficult concept for you to grasp?

Serenity, your idea of “intelligient” [sic] ideas is to make up lies about Planned Parenthood. :lol:

You know what I love? People who come to a blog and do nothing but push their own point of view where it is not wanted, keep coming back even after being asked to leave and being put in the spam filter, and then play the victim.

There is nothing to call people who behave like this but trolls. You earned the name, Serenity. Own it.

Pro-choice women do not go on anti-choice women’s blogs and start preaching at them to abort their babies, for fuck’s sake. Nor do we send our lunatic friends to go murder doctors who perform abortions. That type of insanity is ALL YOURS, baby.

Now, I see I’ll have to take the nuclear option with you. Later.

Thanks, pensivepea. Appreciate your thoughts, and I agree very strongly.

Honestly, if hubby wasn’t a fan, I wouldn’t ever watch football. So, I totally understand what you mean. :-)

You missed an amazing show on PBS
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2010/02/05/now-how-democrats-sold-women/
As for Caprica – it’s a fantastic show – which in no way demeans women, by the same people who wrote BSG. Some of the most thoughtful, progressive writing on TV nowadays.

The Onion strikes again:

Thoughtful Nation Questioning Whether Anyone Can Really “Win” the Super Bowl

MIAMI—As the Super Bowl captures the country’s attention, excitement over the NFL’s championship game is muted somewhat by the persistent question of whether winning, or losing for that matter, holds any absolute value—a question that has many football fans pondering the meaning of the game itself.

“We always say that one football team ‘wins’ the Super Bowl and one football team ‘loses’ it, but when you think about it—really think about it outside the narrow framework of scoring points—is that an accurate assessment of what happens?” Wheeling, WV resident Matthew Holland said. “One team celebrates while another walks solemnly back into the tunnel, but why? Another football season will begin again soon, and in the fullness of time, another Super Bowl will be played as if nothing had happened. And in a way, nothing has.”

Holland’s ambivalence toward what he calls “the tenuous and ephemeral concept of victory” is representative of a large and growing movement in football fandom. Although Super Bowl parties are going ahead as scheduled, many are puzzled, and even resentful, saying that in the span of a lifetime nobody ever really wins or loses, a fact that, by natural deduction, would also include Super Bowl participants.

Hey, EOF, thanks for pointing that out! PBS shows are usually available online after they’ve been aired, so we can check it out then.

As for Caprica, I’m glad to know it’s a good show. The poster I saw was incredibly sexist, which, if you look at the link, I think you will think so too.

As interesting the blog post was (no feminist creds lost because you’ll watch football, promise), the comments section got really lively. Just my two cents in, I am also pro-choice and that means women should have the power to choose whether or not they have a child. I have a blog of my own, I’d just like to share a post since it’s definitely good for us ladies:

http://www.wearyworker.com/labor-laws-2/work-trends-women-closing-in-on-gender-gap/

Sharon — you are so correct about pregnancy and giving birth being so much more dangerous than abortion. There are stats coming out of California showing the extreme change in material death — huge increase in women dying due to child birth. I’ll look for the link — here it is!!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/02/03/MNER1BRFT4.DTL

The mortality rate of California women who die from causes directly related to pregnancy has nearly tripled in the past decade, prompting doctors to worry about the dangers of obesity in expectant mothers and about medical complications of cesarean sections.

For the past seven months, the state Department of Public Health has declined to release a report outlining the trend.

As for me and football — yeck, yeck and more yeck. However, I have several female friends who are addicted to football — they tell me it is the TIGHT clothes of the players and the butt shots.

Well hell — I missed all the fun with da trolls.

Two of them!! even. WOW.

My bet is that they aren’t females — most often the trolls are males.

I think Violet got it right. It strikes me as strange that the one time women can do something en masse that would actually be noticed — lower Super Bowl viewership would be noticed — they come up with excuses. Makes me wonder, if we can’t break out of the box for a few hours on one day, how can we possibly show the backbone it would take to change the system? Guess knuckling under is just easier.

Yes, football is only a symptom, but it’s a damn popular symptom and one that advertisers spend millions to exploit. If messages like Focus on the Family’s make it less likely that viewers will see the other advertisers’ ads, everyone will sit up and take notice. The only way to send that you’ve-gone-too-far signal is to boycott the whole game. Period.

Whatever. I’ve never minded being the lone voice for or against anything (may be why I never found it necessary to pretend to like that silly, boring sport). Not only will I not watch the moronic misogyny-fest, I set the channel lock on CBS to remind myself never to go there again.

CBS, you’re dead to me.

Try it. It’s easy and it feels great.

*****A

This is a very thought provoking and pertinent blog you’ve written. I believe misogynism in America is one of if not the most overlooked issues in America. The patriarchial power structure of our country is an injustice not only towards the rights of women but it violates the natural rights which form the foundations of our constitution. When looked at in this context, a decision to deny women certain priveleges should cause us to seriously consider the validity of our constituiton. I was deeply attracted to this blog because I wrote a blog on the same subject and your blog has some striking similarities with my blog. Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this. Keep speaking out and keep speaking the truth.

Adrienne> I don’t watch football and won’t be watching the game. But I don’t think women tuning out the Superbowl will make a dint in the ratings unless they get their husbands to not watch as well. If the TV is on and somebody’s watching – it doesn’t matter if the woman is in the next room. The ratings will remain the same and CBS’s revenue won’t be affected.

DYB, when I say no CBS my house, that goes for all the TVs. My husband won’t be watching it either, and for that he gets to stay married to me. I won’t pretend that’s as easy for everyone. I’ve been training him for 21 years.

*****A

I don’t think being a feminist does have anything to do with watching sports.
Actually being a feminist and watching sports goes together quite well because even though I am a big one I still watch sports a lot. Especially soccer. That’s why I even dedicaded a day’s post to my boy Cristiano Ronaldo who turned 25 yesterday!
http://www.thecoldshower.wordpress.com

See, Adrienne, I think feminists should be concentrating on getting the ERA passed, not boycotting a football game. I feel like a lot of times, we feminists are running around trying to put out a lot of little fires, without concentrating on the arsonist.

Misogyny comes from the top down. As Xavier said, our Constitution is deeply flawed when 51% of the population is not guaranteed explicit protection. That needs to be fixed, and I think it needs to be the #1 goal of feminism.

But too many of us have let ourselves be drawn in to playing nicey-nice with anti-choicers and giving up hard-fought ground for a chance at a Unity Pony with people who think we’re murderers. Nagahapin, folks.

Concrete, real political change is where it’s at. And boycotting one TV show isn’t going to accomplish that. (Boycotting a whole channel may make a difference, though.)

But I don’t think anyone is asking women to boycott the superbowl.

…are they?

Lily, some people at Reclusive Leftist are advocating a boycott. I don’t think there is a wide-spread movement going on, however.

I am a feminist and I LOVE football (Dallas Cowboys for LIFE!). I’ll just call it a guilty pleasure. I think most of the Super Bowl commercials are ridiculous, but I think you’re right. It’s a time to bond with family and friends…and drink beer and eat wings.

we are wonder woman!
women are strong,wise,and beautiful.

Nice post :)

Thanks for sharing

What’s so bad about football? Why on earth should I feel like I’m oppressed by men? I’m a woman, yeah, but I’m also a human. Just like everyone else. Who cares if those GoDaddy ads are supposedly degrading to women? Hell, those girls probably got paid a decent amount of money. That’s a pretty good deal, I’d say. Those girls entered into a business agreement voluntarily. No one has any right to condemn their actions. That men find women attractive is a good thing. One should feel proud that others find her attractive.

The problem with the feminist movement is that it looks at people as a group. “Men are pigs!” Really? All of them? I’m sure that some of them are, but all of them? Some men just find women attractive. That’s actually a good thing, ya’ know, keeping the species alive and all of that jazz. Groups are nothing more than a collection of individuals. And I know some damned good men, first and foremost being my father.

I love football, I don’t get offended over nothing, and I know how to take a joke. That’s why I’m not a feminist.

I think the Colts will win.

Tebow ad only seems to make more people interested because of the controversy.

Super Bowl is not the best football game of the year anyway and too many people care about it.

IMO, you gain creds by watching Football, or any sports. Why should only guys watch/play sports, especially something as rough as Football? Equality, right? The only thing wrong about football is that no girls are in the league. So, by having more females watching it, perhaps more females would start to play it, and then etc. etc.

There was a female that played for a major college in the recent years but she claimed that she was assaulted but I never heard what happened to her. She did play Kicker, but that is still on the team.

@kdiggs

She was a kicker for Colorado.

Yay for football! Being somewhat of a feminist, football has always held a special place in my heart: I use it as a way to show guys that girls are just as capable as them in carrying a ball over a line. Often I’m the only girl playing, but I really don’t care. Once they see that I can catch and know just as much as they do about the game, you can see the respect in their eyes. It makes a good argument for females in male-dominated sports.

welp, watch the game if you like. but if your boyfriend is anti-choice, don’t give him any sexual satisfaction. it is time for women to do a Lysistrata movement around this enslavement philosophy that is anti-choice, anti-sovereignty for women. So, no choice, no sex. simple. i heard an elderly male poet droning on the other night in a recitation of non-referential poetry, but the line that really made me a fan of his was “the reason women don’t like sex…. is men.” it was great to hear it from an older experienced and educated man. what a cool honest intelligent guy. so, after the game, your anti-choice boyfriend or husband or uncle is not allowed to beat you up or screw you. if women quit “laying down for this” (pardon the pun), the anti-choice movement will go away.

re: commercial spectator sports: its the opiate of the masses. as far as I’m concerned, its kick off, tip off, flip off, i could care less. unless, however, the yankees or the mets are in the world series.
enjoy the day whether you watch superB or not.

Katwillie – great comment. I much prefer baseball to football myself!

I am far too militant on choice to ever be with a man who is anti-choice in any way, shape or form. Just ask all the “women” who have come to this thread spouting anti-choice propaganda and have been banned for it. ;-)

You have a great day, too. Stay warm!

Man, this abortion debate is something. Now I’m pro-choice, and my wife is vehemently so, but the foam-and-slaver-at-the-mouth vitriol is another thing. Everyone is both pro-choice and pro-life. The semantics used to make choice or life part of the argument are misleading. You either are pro-abortion as an alternative, or against abortion…(there is middle ground, those that are against various abortions but think it is acceptable in cases of rape and the mother’s life in jeopardy). Anyway, the root and priority should focus on less unwanted conceptions. Both sides win with less unwanted pregnancies (anti-abortion folks, unfortunately, too often are anti-sex education, which discredits their cause…especially the anti-contraception Catholic element). As it is, both sides are in one another’s face.

Sexist Stay-at-home Dad – are you mansplaining to us about the abortion debate? ;-)

It’s simply not true that both sides are in one another’s face. The anti-abortion people are the ones who stand outside abortion clinics screaming about murder, who push for anti-abortion legislation to deny women their choices, and who constantly try to push against birth control and sex education which, of course, prevent abortions! And of course, some of them actually stoop to murdering abortion doctors (see: Scott Roeder).

Now, I could say that I think having 19 children is the mark of a selfish asshole, but I’m not out trying to make it illegal to do so.

All pro-choice women want to do is to be left alone to make their own decisions about their bodies. And all anti-abortion people want to do is prevent us from making those decisions. No one is out forcing women to have abortions, but the anti-abortion people are forcing women to have children.

The two sides are behaving completely differently, and pretending otherwise doesn’t make it so.

[...] but rarely have time to follow the links. But, I saw a picture of Homer Simpson with the title “Feminist Friday – Revoke My Feminist Creds - I’m Watching the Super Bowl!”…It was a good hook, and I clicked the link. I read the post, of which I laughingly agreed with [...]

[...] the question about not being a feminist because she was going to watch the SuperBowl.  Link here: http://thewiddershins.wordpress.com/2010/02/05/feminist-friday-revoke-my-feminist-creds-im-watching-….  It also talks about sex and women, etc., and some link between pro sports and the [...]

If more women watch the super bowl (and defy the stereotypically male audience) it can only help destroy the patriarchal tradition. I say let’s rob those men of what they think is theirs!

hope u enjoyed it-i enjoyed your post!

Thanks, ladies. Hope you enjoyed the game as well!

i have a husband, too-i hate the word, btw! we got married right after my first women’s studies course (1760′s to 1980)-Mary Wollstonecraft probably flipped in her grave though she was also a married feminist!

after the wedding, my reaction was omg, what have i done? why did i bother? etc…

anyway, I’m hoping that most feminists are open-minded & watched the SB, too!

Hi you all!
What an interesting post and an interesting thread. I hope those of you who watched the game enjoed it. In Finland, where I originate from, winter sports are watched pretty much by everyone. I am really looking forward to the winter Olympics starting soon. Unfortunately, they do not show very much of it here in UK and often what they show is in the middle of the night.

I got to this post, because it was on the first screen after logging in. The picture of Homer Simpson with the word “feminist” drew me to this. I am still new to all this, so have not written much myself. To end I like to state my side: No-one but a woman perself (=her/himself) can know all the circumstances of a woman’s life. No other person can tell any woman what is right for per and what is not. Pro-life people would do well to fight for the world peace, for ending of all violence in our society, for the ending of all poverty, for equal rights and access to good health care for all, for good education for all, etc. Once we have achieved all that we can sit down and discuss, with all of us having an equal say, all the other issues that may arise.

Akka3 – Very well-said.

No-one but a woman perself (=her/himself) can know all the circumstances of a woman’s life. No other person can tell any woman what is right for per and what is not. Pro-life people would do well to fight for the world peace, for ending of all violence in our society, for the ending of all poverty, for equal rights and access to good health care for all, for good education for all, etc. Once we have achieved all that we can sit down and discuss, with all of us having an equal say, all the other issues that may arise.

Thanks for stopping by! I hope you enjoy the Winter Olympics. :-)

Lily, some people at Reclusive Leftist are advocating a boycott. I don’t think there is a wide-spread movement going on, however.

Actually I think those posts were responding to other posters stating how badly they felt watching the superbowl.

[...] in Uncategorized The blog titled “Feminist Friday: Revoke My Feminist Creds – I’m Watching the SuperBowl” by madamab is a fairly fascinating piece of work, and for those of us leaning towards the [...]

it’s a miracle getting pregnant since pregnancy is a gift from God, although some people maybe disagree with that.

[...] Comments northwestrain on Morning Widdershins: The Dark …Pregnancy Signs on Feminist Friday: Revoke My Fem…HT on Morning Widdershins: The Dark …Fredster on Morning Widdershins: The Dark [...]

Comments are closed.

Stop Fast Track and the TPP!

Wanna Be A Widdershin?

Send us a sample post at:

widdershinssubmissions at gmail dot com

Our Front-Pagers

Twittershins

I’m ready. Are you?

Are You…Too Left/Liberal For Obama?

Blog Archive

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 176 other followers